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Cyberia-Mix 
dU.Mapper
UT Name: Demona UT Since: 2000
Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Posts: 588
Location: irc://irc.epiknet.org/2LO
Reputation: 337.5  
votes: 10
Status: Offline
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 Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:52 pm
Post subject: Mapping and stealing |
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I want to have my say on yesterday's story because I don't like the idea of people possibly siding with Terra believing in the lies he tried to spread.
I didn't want to intervene at first because Terra oversteps his place in a non-existent issue, to such a great length that it doesn't deserve that people waste their time replying.
I've been quite annoyed to see that Thunderbolt felt that he needed to defend himself when he had absolutely no reason to. I don't know if Hellfire did before the posts were removed from his thread.
Thunderbolt > It's important that you DO look at and open other people's maps. It's the biggest part of LEARNING, both for acquiring technique and feeding your mind with ideas. It's just common knowledge that everyone, artists, scientists and technicians, can't progress without learning from the work of their predecessors. It's properly incredible to think that Terra might apparently not have acknowledged such an elemental thing.
I think it's obvious enough to everyone except Terra himself that he did not invent icy valleys, glowing crystals, feedback on secrets, and even less the English language he names his maps with.
OperationSaveSanta did not invent icy valleys and glowing crystals any more either. Neither did Unreal. Goddamn.
XMasAdventure does look similar to OperationSaveSanta.
Might be because OSS is a nice map and made you want to make something similar yourself, or it might be because you know, it's a Christmas map, and Christmas has err, snow, and pretty colors, and how the hell do you place natural pretty colors in Unreal if not with glowing crystals (besides the natural connection snow / ice / crystal at that)?
Say you want to make a Christmas outdoor map but oh dear OperationSaveSanta did the same. Bummer. Gonna say OSS copyrighted Christmas? This just makes no sense.
Even if XMasAdventure is in fact deliberately based on OSS, it's as much of a good thing, because tributes create bonds that give consistency to the game.
Lately I started a map in which I stole a fire pot from LostInTime, so that players seeing it can tell "hey look, the nalis from LostInTime built this too". And I'm pretty sure that Derdak2rot would enjoy that I tipped my hat to his works, like people in the mapping community normally react, friendly and stuff. But I suppose you can expect no less from a guy who ripped off CityIntro when he made LiandriConflict/Invasion, stole the concept of LongCorridor to make LongCorridor2006, blatantly inspired Shakrah from Chizra Temple, and God knows what more.
Terra could have, and should have, acknowledged XMasAdventure with a smile, thinking "hey, cool map, maybe a tribute to SaveSanta, I see they're doing a couple things the same way I do, which means it's good I guess ;]" (and I'll say it again Terra has never been the first person to do any of these things). He could even have reacted saying "am I so good that you had to copy everything from me?  " (which is a good joke as long as you don't actually claim it for true!).
That would have been the good course of this thread. Not ruining the mood with egomaniac nonsense. That's why I don't like Ninja's replies in the poll thread like anyone other than Terra may have done something bad, because no, no one except him did.
And some quotes.
"What Hellfire, Thunderbolt, Blackwolf and Demona are say is true, Terraniux has no value here, not in the past or in future"
> Delicious dramatic staging.
"Terraniux's maps are shit anyway, makes allways a mess and we won't miiss him anway"
> I can like your maps and think you're a horrible person. Or the opposite. Isn't it yet another attempt to bring the discussion on your maps for no reason?
"Terraniux is not going anywhere, what others are telling is nothing but crap and he actually deserve a honoured place after the things he made for this community"
> I can think you're doing complete sh*t in the current situation but that you're an honorable user overall. Or the opposite, again. Leave the full white/black thinking to female teenagers.
"F*ck this complete mess, Terraniux can go and so can others"
> Correct!
"I like the work that Terraniux's creates, he stays. If he is going, I am going too."
> I like the work Terraniux creates and I don't see how that is related with me or him leaving or staying. |
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NECRIS 
UT Name: NECRIS UT Since: 2007 Gender: 
Joined: Aug 28, 2011
Age: 108
Posts: 93
Reputation: 19.1
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:10 am
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| Hm..i was thinking, if i learn how to make maps i will make remake of Harobed village with 2 sides for Siege mod with song Elisha-Above and Beyond which is actually a remix from hub2 song which appears in harobed village (check video game music topic). Is that stealing or just remaking because i saw some guys from siege remaking november map and other original maps from UT. |
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HellFire 
UT Name: }ElitE{HellFire` UT Since: 1999 Gender:
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 546
Location: The Netherlands
Reputation: 282.4
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| NECRIS wrote (View Post): | | Hm..i was thinking, if i learn how to make maps i will make remake of Harobed village with 2 sides for Siege mod with song Elisha-Above and Beyond which is actually a remix from hub2 song which appears in harobed village (check video game music topic). Is that stealing or just remaking because i saw some guys from siege remaking november map and other original maps from UT. |
If u got permission from the original author it's no stealing  |
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Cyberia-Mix
dU.Mapper
UT Name: Demona UT Since: 2000
Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Posts: 588
Location: irc://irc.epiknet.org/2LO
Reputation: 337.5
votes: 10
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| NECRIS wrote (View Post): | | Hm..i was thinking, if i learn how to make maps i will make remake of Harobed village with 2 sides for Siege mod with song Elisha-Above and Beyond which is actually a remix from hub2 song which appears in harobed village (check video game music topic). Is that stealing or just remaking because i saw some guys from siege remaking november map and other original maps from UT. |
You have nothing to worry about.
What matters when reusing something is credit and profit. And you're making none of these.
What you're stealing isn't the thing you reuse, it's the potential credit from its author(s) it and the potential profit you can generate from it. |
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BlackWolf 
dU.Staff
UT Name: dU.BlackWolf UT Since: 1999
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
Age: 54
Posts: 821
Location: Berlin
Reputation: 315.2
votes: 5
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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And if the author is not catchable? Like a 7 Years old map?
I think 50% of the maps we have, the author is not activ anymore. You you can't contact him because no Email or website...
Is it enough give give him credits at the project?
Wolfi |
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rork
dU.Staff
UT Name: Rork UT Since: 2003
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
Posts: 218
Reputation: 115.7
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| It depends on the license if it's stealing or using. Look for the original package and check the readme (if both exist), there should be a notice somewhere if it can't be used. If you, after considerable effort, can't find the license and there are no known restrictions from the author I'd say feel free to use it but at least give credit to the original author. |
The best way to kill skaarj is to flak it while it leaps towards you. |
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BlackWolf
dU.Staff
UT Name: dU.BlackWolf UT Since: 1999
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
Age: 54
Posts: 821
Location: Berlin
Reputation: 315.2
votes: 5
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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Better would be if we try to make a mapping codex. (or something else).
So we have a good collection which can help others if they have the same question..
I put them on the HP for all if we have a good one.
Wolfi |
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HellFire
UT Name: }ElitE{HellFire` UT Since: 1999 Gender:
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 546
Location: The Netherlands
Reputation: 282.4
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| BlackWolf wrote (View Post): | Better would be if we try to make a mapping codex. (or something else).
So we have a good collection which can help others if they have the same question..
I put them on the HP for all if we have a good one.
Wolfi |
cool idea! |
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Cyberia-Mix
dU.Mapper
UT Name: Demona UT Since: 2000
Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Posts: 588
Location: irc://irc.epiknet.org/2LO
Reputation: 337.5
votes: 10
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:10 am
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| BlackWolf wrote (View Post): | Better would be if we try to make a mapping codex. (or something else).
So we have a good collection which can help others if they have the same question. |
What are you calling a mapping codex exactly? |
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BlackWolf
dU.Staff
UT Name: dU.BlackWolf UT Since: 1999
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
Age: 54
Posts: 821
Location: Berlin
Reputation: 315.2
votes: 5
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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Somthing like:
- Editing map needs the authorization from the author, if the author is not detectable, don't change the copyright or name of the map. But adding your name to the map author info should not be a problem.
- Copy things from a map is allowed how long you add a info into your map.
- recreate things from a map....
- use music which is copyrighted
- ... |
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Cyberia-Mix
dU.Mapper
UT Name: Demona UT Since: 2000
Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Posts: 588
Location: irc://irc.epiknet.org/2LO
Reputation: 337.5
votes: 10
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| Then it only concerns mappers. Why would that go on the homepage? You mean the download area? |
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NECRIS
UT Name: NECRIS UT Since: 2007 Gender:
Joined: Aug 28, 2011
Age: 108
Posts: 93
Reputation: 19.1
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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The map i want to recreate was one of first maps ever made in Unreal  .
I think 1996, but still its good if u copy it and paste it as RED-BLUE side.
The siege mod requires secret places(well, houses, church, mercenary ship) and wide areas and camp places (church tower).
Its basicly a PERFECT map for siege if you make it work in teams as 2 sided map and if i ever remake it i will name it : Harobed villages war
However if you take a closer look at harobed you will see its not an independed map, because its FHUB1b or so called Dark arena.
So i had an idea..Remove the Dark arena part and add the space ship rooms but not the mercenary design but the space marine design which has alots of personal rooms and turbolifts which can also be used to climb on top of the ship. If you want to know more about siege mod there is a clan which has most active servers.
They are Unreal killers, most active siege clan and they have recreated one map 2 times lol and one map they recreated 5 times in diffrent editions.
And the old harobed song will not be put it, i will however put the harobed song remix which i already said i posted in Video games music and UT remixes forum topics. But thats only when i learn how to make maps (Google is my best friend  ).
I can already predict the players in that map
One more thing.. it is a team game so i will have to remove the monsters from it but i can keep nali rabbits but i dont think that will pass even though theres one rabbit in that map
Although there is one stupid thing about siege, when siege mappers are making the maps they dont add weapons in it (because for siege you create a supplier which gives you weapons) so i decided that it will have weapons so it can be used as a CTF map too because siege already removes the weapons by itself. |
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BlackWolf
dU.Staff
UT Name: dU.BlackWolf UT Since: 1999
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
Age: 54
Posts: 821
Location: Berlin
Reputation: 315.2
votes: 5
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| Cyberia-Mix wrote (View Post): | | Then it only concerns mappers. Why would that go on the homepage? You mean the download area? |
Because we have "some" mappers or "want soon start mapping people here". Why not want to help them with that points? Do you think its the wrong place?
I would publish that here:
With an extra sub menu called mapping
Wolfi |
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Cyberia-Mix
dU.Mapper
UT Name: Demona UT Since: 2000
Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Posts: 588
Location: irc://irc.epiknet.org/2LO
Reputation: 337.5
votes: 10
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| Seems nice. Honestly I don't think this is really needed but it doesn't hurt anyway. |
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Zipps 
UT Name: -=]UM[=-Zipps UT Since: 2003 Gender:
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 49
Posts: 47
Location: Sweden
Reputation: 156.6
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| Here is a question around this, If you as a client download the map from a server to play it ts in his/her possession physically.We have this to and there is nothing we can do about it really.... |
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Cyberia-Mix
dU.Mapper
UT Name: Demona UT Since: 2000
Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Posts: 588
Location: irc://irc.epiknet.org/2LO
Reputation: 337.5
votes: 10
Status: Offline
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:50 am
Post subject: Re: Mapping and stealing |
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| And it's a good thing. |
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