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The General issue...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:24 am
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Hello

You haven't seen me post here much at all, because I mostly just communicate with people within the game,
though I am a lurker on the forums and usually keep informed of what's posted here.

Anyway, this time I feel like opening this threads because the issue has been going on for years, and while I believe
many people will agree with me, little to none has been done to address this, and the issue is the player so many of us know,
General.
(aka Karkass)

It so happens that I regularly spend 2-4 hours on the server early morning (EU time), and during this time I seem to
be the one who is "enjoying" this individual's company quite a bit, so after "enjoying" this for a long time now, I have
to resort to post my experiences and frustration here for all to see.

This player is not a team player, he will almost always care only about his score/progress in a map, he is fixated on
playing the maps on which he can get the most score and farm monsters, and he is systematically votes for those
handful of maps all the time he is on, and I do say systematically because he either votes for them right away when
mapvote appears so that other casual (usually not regular) players just vote along for the same map, or if no one
votes (like I some times do just so a random map is chosen), he will SNEAK his vote in the last few seconds.
Come on, who else here enjoys playing the same map cycle day after day except for this guy?

As some might know, I've been in a conflict with him for a very long time now, trying to talk with him in a manner that
made sense didn't lead anywhere.
Certainly this conflict happens because we share the server at the same time, but if someone will bother checking,
General some times occupies the server for over 10 hours a day (feel free to check the playing times on gametracker).

If one takes a closer look, you would notice that he has a negative affect on the community, some players wont even
join or join and quickly leave when he's around, and on days that he is not playing the server would actually be a fun
place with a variety of players and maps being played.

Since this is the case, I truly believe that some changes must be made in order to make the server enjoyable for
everyone, and not just a single person who's behavior is fixated on the game in a way that is certainly not mentally
healthy (you don't even have to be a qualified doctor to realize that).

I don't want to dwell on this matter on and on while I sure can, but I feel that the time has come to discuss the problem.

Of course it is just a game, but I enjoy it a lot and it is in fact the only game I play after all those years, this is my
entertainment and socializing environment. I play on the dU MH server %95 of the time, finishing the day's work and
dedicating a few hours to it before I go to sleep.
Having to deal with this individual really ruins this experience for me, and I'm sure for others as well.


What would I suggest? if that would be me, I would eliminate one individual from the game for the benefit of many
others, or put some things in place that would curb this behavior, for example the suggestion elsewhere for a top
score reset sounded nice as well.
I agree that the server has to be a fair place for everyone to enjoy, but if someone exploits it in a way that may not
technically break any major rules, then some extra attention and measures should be given to a case like this
(Oh, and if you look at the game play rules, General mostly DOES break 3 of the 4 of the main ones:
"THIS IS ONLY A GAME"? -The game turned into a mental obsession for him
"Make Friends"? -I don't see him making much friends with the way he behaves
" Work With The Team"? -General... working with the team.... right.


I'm sorry for the lengthy post, feel free to either support or criticize my view, I'm open minded and would welcome
whatever you have to say :)

Cheers,
Crow.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:51 am
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I say we get rid of him. :Zwinker:
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:40 pm
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I've never quite undertstood what the big deal about him is. I play too less I think. But why do people him so much, besides the points crow told above?

Can someone give me a clarification?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:49 pm
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Terraniux wrote (View Post):
I've never quite undertstood what the big deal about him is. I play too less I think. But why do people him so much, besides the points crow told above?

Can someone give me a clarification?
 

I think Crow summed it all up perfectly. He's not a team player at all, he barely helps out other players, he only cares about his score, he's rude, and he plays the same maps nonstop. Almost everyone I know on the server hates his guts because of this.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:10 pm
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General and Mister are very, very similar in their playstyle.

They BOTH usually vote the instant the map ends, to try and get the newer players to follow their vote of long, boring, easy maps where they can easily get plenty of points with no chance of dying. If you vote a map that will cause you to die fairly easily, they will usually leave. On Terraniux's new map, General fell into a trap but disconnected before he died, then connected again. That's how much he doesn't want to die.

If you vote a map General doesn't agree with, he will often try to convince players not to vote for it. Like when someone was voting LavaTower (Could have been me), and he started saying how there were too many people for that map. Even if that is true, so what? People are free to play the game however they want, and they shouldn't be dictated by him. He tries to bully people into voting the maps he wants, so he can grow his ego and his points. On top of that, Hyperion and I voted for DarkWhite the other day, and had to go and do something quickly part way through the map, so we went to spectate for a couple of minutes. He jumps in, says something along the lines of "LOL you're not even playing the map you voted for" and left. Yet, shortly after, he and Ragnar voted for MonstersOfTheCaribbean (They often vote the same map), and Ragnar was AFK for nearly the whole map. Did General care? No, of course not. Because it was a map he liked. I may vote a lot of the same maps, but the selection is fairly large and I try to vote for maps that suit the number of players on the server so they don't drag on too long. General votes for maps that he wants, even if it means they last for ages, which then keeps people away from the server. They see a long map that's going to take ages, with only General and maybe a couple of other people on, and then stay away. Mister just constantly votes those really, really dull HTD maps. Yes, liking maps comes down to personal taste, but we shouldn't have to play a HTD map, followed by another 5 of them. I have personally stayed away from the server many times because of seeing General or Mister there.

Both of them always rush to where the points are, forgetting about the team entirely. They've learnt where they can go to get the most points, without risk of dying, and which maps provide that. Teamplay is the last thing on their minds. All they want to do is try and top the team to make them think they're the best players here. The atmosphere on the servers is always worse when they're there, but especially when General is there, due to how argumentative he is.

Let me also add that I know I don't act perfectly on the server. Who does? I think almost everyone has broken a rule or two at some point. Whether it's swearing, deliberate teamshooting or whatever. I mean, the amount of talking in languages other than English on the server - Which is against the rules - is crazy. But none of that really has a huge impact on the server or the amount of players. Well, except for a few select players who have been frustrating others, but that's for a different topic.

I believe the server needs some more active staff that actually follow the rules, and don't abuse their powers. Naming no names. We have Idefix, who has a child now so it's fully understandable why he can't be around so much. Killkio, who is great, but doesn't play all that much. Who else is actually active and acts like a proper member of staff? But then that leads to the problem; I can hardly think of anyone who follows the rules well enough to be considered staff and who wouldn't abuse their power or let personal feelings get in the way. I was thinking about this the other day, and the only regular players I could think of who could possibly be good members of staff are Neto, MireYa and Zenobia. The server is usually fine, but there are some players who are generally acting however they want, with nothing being done.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:46 pm
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Ah I see. Thanks for explaining it to me, both of you Smile I wonder what the admins have to say about this.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:24 pm
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Sometimes he'll even stand and wait in a safe spot while everyone else is out there trying to kill the monsters. He has been seen doing this on MANY multiple occasions.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:52 pm
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My "BBB" Black Bird Brother speaks from my heart 100 % !!! You summed up some of the issues , general is the lamer or lamers , NOT a TEAM player,  definitely  not a friend or "friendly" that's the reason "I SHOOT HIM SO MUCH"  Twisted Evil  Crow said "the general issue...." I might add "the general Issues " because are many , many little things that one can see or observe only if spends almost daily time on server. While BlackWolf is howling to the fullmoon and roams the Black Forest , I asure my friends here and there  Cool  that i will keep shooting and hunting "not the good" but only the bad and the ugly  Twisted Evil  Greetings From Sparta!!! Hail Mother Darkness!!! Let the Hunt Begin!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:03 pm
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Not agreed.

I dont like some of Generals maps (BoomBoomBridge, HotFoot, ShootingGuys, SunkenShip, ATAA), but i like to play some of them (HighSchool, LastVoyage, DawnOfTheDead, Crytalmine, Crystalmine4). But it is my opinion.
Other players like other types of maps (like Kingibi likes the HotFoot map).

Its also true on Mister maps, for example i love the CapatibilityZone-HTD, but i found some HTD maps boring (especially those where you must stand-and-shoot for long minutes, fighting disgustingly high HP boss-monsters).

Also most of the server players noticed, that my fav maps are those in style with EasyLee and Navy Seal (Hellfire, Glacialis, Volkov, Shakrath, DarkWhite, NodeInvaders).
Or the longer maps what need some kind of knowledge to play (NaliC, Terraniux-Beta-47, JumpToSpace2011, Evacuation, BoxesRemade, LandsOfNapali).

But General never criticized my gamestyle. Never ever.

This is the same with LollyLol-UnaiNablet: he lured me into annoying deathtraps numerous times, but i have no problems with him. Why? Because he never tried to SHAME me before others. Also he gave some tips and tricks on maps for me.

This is not true on others.

When im trying to playing in team (i.e. trying to step up with Navy on fast maps), then MireYa saying "you are a gay dog of Navy". No, its not humorous. Also its not a nice thing to bother other players with friendly fire (and forcing me to drop down into a fountain where is no exit and i need to suicide or disconnect or wait for others finish the map). This is not a -possible- staff members behavior!

Or like Ankea, a bothering constant shamer of me: When im staying back, playing more caotious, because im using my sniper in 95% of my time: its "im playing like Karkass". While he is in spectator mode, and doing nothing but chitchatting all the time...  (He is mostly doing that)
Last time on LongCorridor i was to leave (because it was late night) and wanted to quit the server, i had the shield artifact and a redeemer. I usually wait for a player and drop these items to use them ingame (to Zenobia, Neto or even General) . Im even waiting for 30-40 seconds or even mins to find somebody to send these. This is "Karkass style waiting other players doing the work". Congrats! Public shaming is a good thing, thanks!

Also when im voting on Terraniux-Beta-47 and playing the map (and enjoying), Ankea calls for ingame voting and forces to vote other players. Needless to say he is staying at the starting area and doing nothing (except saying this is a "boring map", maybe he dont know where to go). Knowledge? Practicing? Yes, map changed. Do you know for what? GateKeeper! A really bad map while you are instantly dead at start at last 5-10 times. With small, rectangular rooms and unnecessary strong monsters. Surely its fun. For who? Congrats again.

Problems with im speak about these things with my friend VillageMeeting ingame? Kryxix is not enough brave to say these in the eyes? Ok, you got it now. Shame me more.



Until i leave this community finally. Or what do you think what will be happen?

PLEASE STOP SHAMING OTHERS INGAME !!! Thanks!

I never say bad things on other players before, never criticized others playing style and i never wanted to do it, but when a community tries to ban a player just because he is a bit "odd", then i must to say: General is not the worse problem here.



Do not ban the player, but clear out the unpopular or bad (plain, tight, squarish-roomed maps with million HP monsters) maps from server maplist, thats the solution.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:53 pm
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There is something totally missing the point here. Why doesn't no one use the kickvote option? When someone is bothering you and more people agree with you, he can be kicked for rest of the game.
Also why is this on the forum just now? Seems to me this is a problem going on for some years now. Why isn't this discussed before?

Edit: And I also remember BW saying that dU is understaffed at the moment. Kingibi is added to the team a while ago, but it wise to ask as a community for addition recruitment.  I think it is wise to say that one of the elder members here, or longtime players here , that know dU really well and are often online should be staffed Smile That should solve a lot of problems I think! :Zwinker:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:02 pm
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Ninja added a few more valid points that I didn't mention, lol the comment about General saying "you voted for that map
but you dont play it", I heard him say it so many times, he sometimes said it to me even when I was taking a quick
break or something...
Good point by Beemo as well, and haha muff I'm sure we're on the same page here as well  Smile
There are even more reasons, we can't start recalling every single incident though.

While I am not a big fan of Mister either, at least Mister is not spending such an excessive time on the server, and also he
is more quiet and I think a bit more flexible with maps, at least he doesn't begin whining when a map he doesn't like is being voted.


Kryxix,
While I value your stance on being criticized in public, it's natural that those things would happen here and there...
Like Ninja said, none of us acts "perfectly", this is a game and we are all human... It's the constantly repeating
offenders that are really causing a bad experience.
I was criticized and shamed numerous times by lots of different players over the few years that I've been playing on the server!  Smile
If its something that just happens once or twice by a certain player, I wont give it much attention, probably would just
reply or comment somehow and that's usually it, don't take it to the heart man!
By the way, General does criticize me in public a lot, but so do I criticize him, so we're equal on this matter  Very Happy1
My complaints about General's behaviour are due to things that happen constantly and on a daily basis, if this would
have been a random player that I'd be encountering a few times a week for a brief time, I wouldn't have been writing
here about it or complaining much.

I would agree with your idea of removing some of the dull maps from the server, especially the ones that are most
often just being used to farm for score. (ATAA-0 comes to mind!)
Maybe we should set up a sort of vote for which maps are to be removed?  Cool


Terraniux,
We have used the kickvote option many times, some times General does get kicked, but often people don't get the
majority for a kick vote because there are players that are uncommunicative or ones that simply don't care about
what's going on.
Also, get this: he was actually banned for a week a little while ago, why? because he was circumventing the kick system!
He would get kicked, and about two minutes later he just comes back to the same map, and resumes playing!
Also a thing to note, if that happens a few times in a row, players are no longer able to kick the kick-cheating player
while still playing the same map.
This was happening for awhile but then was reported to Suz and she banned him for a week.... this was a pleasant, enjoyable week.


Yes, this has been a problem for quite awhile indeed, but constantly discussing it led to me being accused of "bitching and nagging"...
I and at least one other member emailed Wolf about our problems with General, neither of us got a reply though.
I think the reason that made me finally open this thread is that indeed complaining about him in game doesn't lead
anywhere, and also due to his apparent even more frequent presence on the server lately.

Edit: pic didn't seem to attach properly
Edit#2: Thanks for the advice Terraniux, will try this now, hope it works.
(The pic is just a screenshot from the game at the moment that the ban was initiated)


Last edited by Crow on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:06 pm
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Try your the pic you posted upload as an attachment that works better.

As I don't have many encounters with this guy, I will keep an eye out when I am on.
Fully agreeing that those extremely horrible maps are being removed from the server too. I've been preaching that for years lol.



Circumventing the kickvote is extremely childish in my point of view. I wonder how he does it.

My understanding  of the kickvote settings: Perhaps the kickvote can be tweaked to a 60/40% ratio , think it is now approx 90/80 to 10/20 downside . Not quite sure if this applies on dU too.
This means that the majority of the votes should be 60% of positive kickvotes to a 40% negative of total to kickvote a player. Now the minority wins above the most votes. So for example if  10 players are online there are at least 8  votes needed to kick him.
2 negative (no votes at all ) are enough to stop it.
if you have a 60/40% ratio that would 4 or 5. Which would be much ideal for the fair players to kick a toxic player. Offcourse this should not be abused. Or a 55 / 45% ratio would be good.

Fully agreeing that those extremely horrible maps are being removed from the server too. I've been preaching that for years lol.  
I understand now. Thanks for the story.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:12 pm
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Bookmarked this thread, a well constructed opening post by Crow and I follow his views on this matter.

Kickvoting can only happen when +4 players are online and some cant be bothered with opening votemenu.

Top solution would be to eliminate General from dU main server.
Best solution is to recruit 2 active new admins, my vote goes to Hyperion and Mireya.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:33 pm
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viandel wrote (View Post):
Bookmarked this thread, a well constructed opening post by Crow and I follow his views on this matter.

Kickvoting can only happen when +4 players are online and some cant be bothered with opening votemenu.

Top solution would be to eliminate General from dU main server.
Best solution is to recruit 2 active new admins, my vote goes to Hyperion and Mireya.
 


Isn't Hyperion already a member of the staff or just here on forum?
I vote Ninja Pirate big time. For he is a well respected player and a all time good guy and mostly 1 of the elder members here.  Perhaps Lee too. Uhm... 1 of the gossip girls? They tend to be online much too, a bit too girly but friendly and just.

My second vote,  no idea I guess you guys should fill in for me . Made some suggestions above . I know a lot regular players but which one would be fitting a staff job would be hard to tell.  

I am willing to apply as well if the people want,  but that counts for the hours in the evening GMT times.

But you guys know probably better what right for the server :Zwinker:
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:26 am
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The problem with General/Karkass is that he's a bit different from typical trouble-makers. Only people who have played with him frequently enough will be able to see the negative pattern in his behaviour. He normally won't bother regular players, as long as his maps are played and he's happy. However, as soon as you get in his way, he's likely to make a comment about you. Pretty much everything he does has already been described in this thread. All in the name of those points that give you absolutely nothing.

Personally, I have been tolerating his style so far, just like I've been tolerating many other people despite not approving of their ways. Mister is another example here. Generally, you won't see me publicly badmouthing players, unless someone really gets on my nerves. But when I see more and more frustration coming from a number of players, then that must mean something is wrong. The fact that a player doesn't criticise everyone doesn't necessarily make the player innocent. Sometimes, we have to look at how an individual acts towards other people, not just ourselves, to know better what kind of person one is. Also, bypassing kicks/bans is unacceptable and can't be excused. Bypassing a kick alone deserves a ban.

That being said, I do understand Kryxix's point of view, and I know General isn't the only player to ruin the game for the others. That's why the Staff issue was brought up. With more members, Staff would deal with those minor/everyday trouble-makers and would keep the servers clean. It's very hard to find new Staff members nowadays, though. There are very few reliable regulars around. I agree with Terraniux on that the best candidates would be those "older" regulars who know dU well and are active enough. Best if they have proved to be able to be impartial in their judgment, won't abuse their privileges and are known not to befriend trouble-makers. It is, however, hard to find those nowadays, like I said. My vote would go to Ninja_Pirate, Ariana, UltraMagnetic, 344GuiltySpark, XevBellringer, and Zenobia, provided she gets more active again. Knowing Ninja in person, I can attest that he's a perfectly suitable candidate. He's been in the community for many, many years, so he knows it very well and he recognises trouble-makers easily. I know first-hand that he's a very mature, sensible and down-to-earth person.

I would be very much for removing the big/ugly maps with monsters having a lot of health points from the server, but I believe that it's very unlikely that that will ever happen.

Do I think that General should be taken action against? I don't know. I will leave this decision to the Admins.
If he is, though, then we should also do something about those other players who break the server rules on a regular basis, so it's fair.
I'm not talking about those who occasionally broke a rule or two, since no one is a saint, but about those cases where it's a regular, everyday occurence.

Terraniux wrote (View Post):
Isn't Hyperion already a member of the staff or just here on forum?
 

Technically, I am, both on the forums and the servers. I just haven't used my privileges in-game for a while.


Last edited by Hyperion on Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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