2015-09-20 07:46.41 Dem: i like coding
2015-09-20 07:46.47 easylee: hahaha
2015-09-20 07:46.51 Dem: and when i say i like coding
2015-09-20 07:46.56 Ninja_Pirate: only 1 class on monday, 1 class on wednesday
2015-09-20 07:47.01 Dem: i mean coding
2015-09-20 07:47.03 Ninja_Pirate: i like coding when it works
2015-09-20 07:47.10 Dem: not searching through endless documentation
2015-09-20 07:47.11 Ninja_Pirate: which is about 2% of the time
2015-09-20 07:47.20 easylee: what exactly do you mean if u say coding?
2015-09-20 07:47.52 easylee: i c lol
2015-09-20 07:47.55 Dem: when i code, actual coding is like 20% of the activity
2015-09-20 07:48.20 Dem: with like 40% reading stuff till you figure out that´s not what you were looking for
2015-09-20 07:48.24 Ninja_Pirate: we´re using DX11 this year, which i hear is tough
2015-09-20 07:48.28 Dem: and 40% bug tracking
2015-09-20 07:49.24 easylee: so if you code u use prewritten stuff only?
2015-09-20 07:49.59 Dem: lots relies on using libraries
2015-09-20 07:50.09 Dem: for example on video game consoles
2015-09-20 07:50.37 Dem: you use the console company´s libraries
2015-09-20 07:50.53 easylee: i c
2015-09-20 07:51.01 easylee: and you have to use them in taht case?
2015-09-20 07:51.10 easylee: legally?
2015-09-20 07:51.18 Dem: it´s part of the tool
2015-09-20 07:51.37 Dem: then you add your own libraries that uses those
2015-09-20 07:51.38 Dem: like layers
2015-09-20 07:51.56 easylee: so its a bit like a patchwork?
2015-09-20 07:52.04 Dem: generally game companies will struggled on their first game with a new console
2015-09-20 07:52.14 easylee: bugs?
2015-09-20 07:52.18 Dem: using new stuff
2015-09-20 07:52.19 SodaPopinski: !o
2015-09-20 07:52.28 Dem: they need to rewrite a lot of things
2015-09-20 07:53.09 easylee: thkx 4 the explanation
2015-09-20 07:53.10 Dem: since it´s getting ever more complex
2015-09-20 07:53.18 Dem: companies tend to specialize
2015-09-20 07:53.36 easylee: someone is drowning here
2015-09-20 07:53.38 Dem: first they used to code the whole stuff from scratch
2015-09-20 07:54.00 Dem: an engine for each game
2015-09-20 07:54.13 Dem: then they started to try reusing the engine as much as possible
2015-09-20 07:54.35 Dem: the first game takes long because you need to write the engine but then you can dev other games using most of what you have
2015-09-20 07:55.05 easylee: i was getting more curious about this as
2015-09-20 07:55.14 Dem: but since engine are so big now it´s getting specialized into companies that make engines only
2015-09-20 07:55.17 easylee: i was very much fascinated by the UE4 community
2015-09-20 07:55.28 Ninja_Pirate: we´re learning how to code our own game engines this year
2015-09-20 07:55.31 Dem: and companies that make games from engines they bought to the above mentionned people
2015-09-20 07:55.48 easylee: i c
2015-09-20 07:55.49 Dem: i don´t know if epic still makes games lol
2015-09-20 07:56.00 Dem: does ut4 belong to epic?
2015-09-20 07:56.03 Ninja_Pirate: they sold off GoW to microsoft
2015-09-20 07:56.07 Ninja_Pirate: yes
2015-09-20 07:56.13 easylee: UE4 is open source now
2015-09-20 07:56.17 easylee: its free
2015-09-20 07:56.24 Dem: but they make a ton of money from devs using their engine
2015-09-20 07:56.36 easylee: ah ok
2015-09-20 07:56.40 Ninja_Pirate: borderlands games used them for a start
2015-09-20 07:56.51 Ninja_Pirate: bioshock 1 did, i think
2015-09-20 07:56.56 Dem: yes
2015-09-20 07:57.05 Ninja_Pirate: those are some of the biggest mentions
2015-09-20 07:57.10 easylee: so if u use it commercially they get money?
2015-09-20 07:57.15 Dem: that´s how it works yes
2015-09-20 07:57.16 Ninja_Pirate: a small fee
2015-09-20 07:57.20 easylee: omg
2015-09-20 07:57.34 easylee: then its a clever way to give it away frely to a community
2015-09-20 07:57.49 easylee: cause their experience is like u let them work without salary
2015-09-20 07:57.57 Dem: iirc on ff13 square enix first tried to make its ps3 engine like they did so far
2015-09-20 07:58.08 Dem: or ff15 maybe
2015-09-20 07:58.14 Dem: then they eventually switched to unreal engine
2015-09-20 07:58.31 Dem: but that was long ago they might have switched back since idk lol
2015-09-20 07:58.37 (CZ)Pol: hi
2015-09-20 07:58.40 easylee: Hi there!
2015-09-20 07:58.42 easylee: hey pol
2015-09-20 07:58.58 Dem: it has become too long to make your own engine today when 95% of the stuff is already done on something you can buy
2015-09-20 07:59.10 easylee: yes
2015-09-20 07:59.28 Ninja_Pirate: with source 2, UE4 and unity 5, there´s not much room in the market for new engines
2015-09-20 07:59.28 easylee: its like parts supplies if u buld a car or a refrigerator
2015-09-20 07:59.32 Ninja_Pirate: seeing as all 3 are free
2015-09-20 07:59.35 Dem: yes
2015-09-20 08:00.06 easylee: and thats where koto gets mono
2015-09-20 08:00.09 easylee: ^^
2015-09-20 08:00.14 Dem: bethesda uses idtech for all?
2015-09-20 08:00.18 Ninja_Pirate: and now the conversation has looped
2015-09-20 08:00.24 easylee: lol
2015-09-20 08:00.31 Ninja_Pirate: yeah, pretty sure bethesda still use that for everything
2015-09-20 08:00.35 Ninja_Pirate: they just keep tweaking it
2015-09-20 08:00.42 easylee: in a hopefully meaningful way
2015-09-20 08:00.42 Ninja_Pirate: like valve tweaked source 1 for so long
2015-09-20 08:00.55 Dem: another cool thing lee
2015-09-20 08:01.04 Dem: today´s 2d games are usually made with 3d engines
2015-09-20 08:01.04 easylee: <--listening
2015-09-20 08:01.14 Ninja_Pirate: a lot are made in unity
2015-09-20 08:01.22 Dem: it´s a bit surprising at first when you launch a game
2015-09-20 08:01.39 Ninja_Pirate: unity has resources built in just for 2D environments
2015-09-20 08:01.40 Dem: to see the same engine logo
2015-09-20 08:01.52 Dem: on 2 games that look completely different
2015-09-20 08:02.00 easylee: does it have any side effects on the 2 d games?
2015-09-20 08:02.07 easylee: any symptoms?
2015-09-20 08:02.18 Dem: not really
2015-09-20 08:02.20 easylee: lol the md is talking sorry
2015-09-20 08:02.55 Dem: a 2d game now is basically a 3d game with camera restrictions
2015-09-20 08:02.59 easylee: i was thinking about the aspects of dimensions in general
2015-09-20 08:03.04 easylee: i c
2015-09-20 08:03.15 easylee: so if we are thinking about time
2015-09-20 08:03.23 Dem: so if you were able to hack it and turn the camera you would see emptyness all around lol
2015-09-20 08:03.29 easylee: we just have not the right to use our camera right?
2015-09-20 08:03.45 easylee: i was thinking about the aspects of dimensions in general
2015-09-20 08:03.47 easylee: ^^
2015-09-20 08:03.49 Dem: lol
2015-09-20 08:04.10 easylee: its inspirational to combine topics
2015-09-20 08:04.18 easylee: and fields of expertise
2015-09-20 08:04.53 easylee: lol soda finally drowned after being ethereal first saved him
2015-09-20 08:05.05 Dem: back to the beginning of the topic
2015-09-20 08:05.09 easylee: ok
2015-09-20 08:05.16 Dem: when you want to code something and you´re using libraries
2015-09-20 08:05.35 Dem: it´s likely that what you´re trying to do already has been done
2015-09-20 08:05.38 Dem: at least a part
2015-09-20 08:05.47 easylee: so its easier to patch
2015-09-20 08:05.54 easylee: more efficient
2015-09-20 08:05.55 Dem: that´s why you spend a lot of time reading what´s available when you begin
2015-09-20 08:06.00 easylee: but
2015-09-20 08:06.06 easylee: if u think that through
2015-09-20 08:06.12 Dem: yeah you add your own stuff to fill in whatever is missing for you
2015-09-20 08:06.20 easylee: wouldnt it be as equal timeconsuming
2015-09-20 08:06.28 easylee: if u just do it urself
2015-09-20 08:06.32 easylee: right from the start
2015-09-20 08:06.38 Dem: generally no
2015-09-20 08:06.41 easylee: ok
2015-09-20 08:06.56 easylee: but u would learn a lot more i guess
2015-09-20 08:07.12 easylee: i like the idea of efficient programming
2015-09-20 08:07.17 Dem: it depends
2015-09-20 08:07.29 easylee: the less data the better
2015-09-20 08:07.31 Dem: it´s basically like growing the food yourself when you want to cook
2015-09-20 08:07.45 easylee: i understand but isnt that a lovely idea?
2015-09-20 08:07.54 easylee: no ok i understand^^
2015-09-20 08:08.07 Dem: you have to say how clever the unreal engine is lol
2015-09-20 08:08.18 Dem: it´s likely that most devs that would want to build their own
2015-09-20 08:08.27 Dem: would end up with something not as good
2015-09-20 08:08.34 easylee: thats amzing
2015-09-20 08:08.42 easylee: how is that possible
2015-09-20 08:08.54 easylee: it was just a bunch of trilas at first
2015-09-20 08:08.59 easylee: trials
2015-09-20 08:09.06 easylee: nothing serious
2015-09-20 08:09.11 easylee: until they realized
2015-09-20 08:09.16 easylee: how good it was
2015-09-20 08:09.34 easylee: its like a godly inspiration
2015-09-20 08:09.48 Dem: we´re playing a game that doesn´t look so good today
2015-09-20 08:09.56 easylee: its just the look
2015-09-20 08:09.59 Dem: but you have to remember
2015-09-20 08:10.11 Dem: it might be a bit less true today specially with indie games
2015-09-20 08:10.16 easylee: i was very much impressed by it right from the start
2015-09-20 08:10.26 easylee: i started playing the demo
2015-09-20 08:10.34 easylee: b4 the game came out
2015-09-20 08:10.40 Dem: but games generally always tend to use the hardware capacity to the limit
2015-09-20 08:10.41 easylee: 1 y b4 it appeared on the market
2015-09-20 08:10.51 easylee: .::LOL::.
2015-09-20 08:10.55 easylee: yea thats odd
2015-09-20 08:11.01 easylee: its like a deal theyve made
2015-09-20 08:11.01 Dem: even at the times of win 3.1
2015-09-20 08:11.15 Dem: people were programming stuff that looked like it couldn´t possibly run on it
2015-09-20 08:11.33 easylee: still there are coders who try to do the same with less data
2015-09-20 08:11.34 Dem: because they´re basically excellent at maths
2015-09-20 08:11.36 easylee: minimum data
2015-09-20 08:11.55 Dem: and manage to save memory in the craziest ways possible
2015-09-20 08:12.15 easylee: yea i was there too once, but lost it after amiga lol
2015-09-20 08:12.24 easylee: c64
2015-09-20 08:12.31 Dem: it´s getting more complicated each year but the principles still apply
2015-09-20 08:13.04 easylee: i completely forgot all ive learned
2015-09-20 08:13.21 Dem: you might know that thing about mario
2015-09-20 08:13.27 Dem: how the cloud and bush sprites
2015-09-20 08:13.34 (CZ)Pol: water amp = goooo
2015-09-20 08:13.37 Dem: have different colors but the same shape
2015-09-20 08:13.48 easylee: yes
2015-09-20 08:13.50 Dem: they actually use the same memory space for the shape
2015-09-20 08:14.04 Dem: when you do that for your entire game
2015-09-20 08:14.15 Dem: you do a lot more than what can be expected at first sight
2015-09-20 08:14.27 easylee: its about dimensions again
2015-09-20 08:14.48 Dem: actually i think
2015-09-20 08:14.51 easylee: the dimension of shape and the "dimension" of colour
2015-09-20 08:14.56 Dem: i didn´t try but
2015-09-20 08:15.07 Dem: i suspect ut2004 wouldn´t run ut99 maps much better than ut99 does
2015-09-20 08:15.17 easylee: definitely not
2015-09-20 08:15.23 easylee: 2004 sux
2015-09-20 08:15.27 Dem: the engine is good
2015-09-20 08:15.32 easylee: u think?
2015-09-20 08:15.36 Dem: yes
2015-09-20 08:15.43 Dem: same devs there´s no reason lol
2015-09-20 08:15.44 easylee: i ve found it odd as a player
2015-09-20 08:15.50 Ninja_Pirate: a lot of mods were made off of it
2015-09-20 08:15.58 Ninja_Pirate: killing floor, for example
2015-09-20 08:16.24 easylee: games are a whole new universe
2015-09-20 08:16.28 Dem: ut2004 added a feater that i believe considerably expanded available memory
2015-09-20 08:16.31 easylee: and it just started
2015-09-20 08:16.42 Dem: i´m not sure how significant it is overall
2015-09-20 08:16.54 Dem: but basically lee
2015-09-20 08:17.02 Dem: when you make a hallway with pilars
2015-09-20 08:17.18 Dem: ut99 treats them as separate entities
2015-09-20 08:17.31 Dem: ut2004 treats them as instances of the same one
2015-09-20 08:17.36 easylee: yes
2015-09-20 08:17.39 easylee: exacgtly
2015-09-20 08:17.39 Dem: that saves a ton of data
2015-09-20 08:17.43 easylee: sure
2015-09-20 08:17.44 easylee: but
2015-09-20 08:17.54 easylee: the feeling of different materials
2015-09-20 08:17.58 easylee: suffers
2015-09-20 08:18.05 easylee: thats what i recognize
2015-09-20 08:18.08 easylee: when i play it
2015-09-20 08:18.10 Dem: what do you mean?
2015-09-20 08:18.15 easylee: hard to explain
2015-09-20 08:18.32 easylee: more and more some 3d games actually do look more 2d too me
2015-09-20 08:18.42 Dem: there´s a lot of stuff in the engine that i don´t like as well anyway
2015-09-20 08:18.51 Dem: i´d rather play ut99 partly for that
2015-09-20 08:19.02 Dem: but overall 2004 is much better
2015-09-20 08:19.08 easylee: i try to describe the difference
2015-09-20 08:19.14 easylee: in ut 99
2015-09-20 08:19.21 easylee: he "things"
2015-09-20 08:19.25 easylee: the objects
2015-09-20 08:19.34 easylee: look 3d
2015-09-20 08:19.38 easylee: no matter
2015-09-20 08:19.44 easylee: where u are or look at
2015-09-20 08:19.51 easylee: they stay 3d
2015-09-20 08:19.57 easylee: in the reception of them
2015-09-20 08:20.06 easylee: some new games are ultrarealistic
2015-09-20 08:20.13 easylee: aslo in 3d
2015-09-20 08:20.17 easylee: but still
2015-09-20 08:20.23 easylee: if you move
2015-09-20 08:20.28 easylee: u have the feeling as if
2015-09-20 08:20.42 easylee: he 3d aspect has just establsihed inthat right moment
2015-09-20 08:20.45 easylee: the*
2015-09-20 08:21.00 easylee: its like 2d gets unfolded
2015-09-20 08:21.06 easylee: in the moment u look at it
2015-09-20 08:21.19 Dem: i see what you mean but i don´t think it´s a general propery of newer games lol
2015-09-20 08:21.19 easylee: in ut 99 i dont have that feeling
2015-09-20 08:21.48 Dem: you mean it somewhat like doom where corpses would always face the same way when you turn around them
2015-09-20 08:21.57 Dem: except done in a clever way nowadays
2015-09-20 08:22.06 easylee: its comparable but not what ive meant
2015-09-20 08:22.09 Dark_Angel_Wolf: hi´s 9:21 Pm UT99 + tea :)
2015-09-20 08:22.11 easylee: not exactly
2015-09-20 08:22.16 easylee: but a good comparison
2015-09-20 08:22.27 easylee: but again
2015-09-20 08:22.43 Dark_Angel_Wolf: hi´s 9:21 Pm UT99 + tea :) good map !
2015-09-20 08:22.46 Dem: one reason for your troubles might be the lighting
2015-09-20 08:22.47 easylee: it might be just an effect of me literally growing up with ut lol
2015-09-20 08:23.01 easylee: im used to it
2015-09-20 08:23.35 Ninja_Pirate: i´ve been playing UT over half my life. just realised
2015-09-20 08:23.45 easylee: crazy isnt it
2015-09-20 08:23.49 Ninja_Pirate: started when i was 10
2015-09-20 08:23.56 easylee: i recently calculated the time ive wasted
2015-09-20 08:23.57 Ninja_Pirate: ish
2015-09-20 08:24.01 easylee: OMG