2013-09-16 14:41.38 easylee:random bosses would be
2013-09-16 14:41.40 easylee:nice
2013-09-16 14:41.47 easylee:random at all
2013-09-16 14:41.53 Dem: in shooting guys
2013-09-16 14:41.53 DoDo: is it possible with random prototypes dem ?..
2013-09-16 14:42.00 Dem: at the bridge
2013-09-16 14:42.04 Dem: and the part after
2013-09-16 14:42.07 easylee:types?
2013-09-16 14:42.12 Dem: all monsters types are spawned from the same factories
2013-09-16 14:42.23 DoDo: really ? .. nerver seen
2013-09-16 14:42.26 easylee:but the bosses are always the same e.g.
2013-09-16 14:42.28 Dem: skaarj warriors then ice then lords
2013-09-16 14:42.38 DoDo: didnt had a look at .. ´shooting guys´ .. pff lol
2013-09-16 14:42.43 easylee:that makes it so predictabble
2013-09-16 14:42.49 Dem: but it´s not random it´s just a sequence
2013-09-16 14:43.00 DoDo: but one! factory ?
2013-09-16 14:43.01 Dem: there´s a pool of X of type 1 then Y of type 2
2013-09-16 14:43.03 Dem: and so one
2013-09-16 14:43.06 Dem: custom factory
2013-09-16 14:43.12 Dem: not even detected by dU
2013-09-16 14:43.27 Dem: that´s why you see 0 monsters all the time
2013-09-16 14:43.34 Dem: Monsters left: 0 (0)
2013-09-16 14:43.36 Dem: from the beginning
2013-09-16 14:43.41 DoDo: yes
2013-09-16 14:43.50 DoDo: flawless victories all thetime
2013-09-16 14:44.14 Dem: what exactly are you trying to do with random bosses lee?
2013-09-16 14:44.26 Dem: can you give an example
2013-09-16 14:44.35 easylee: to me most maps are getting to easy
2013-09-16 14:44.47 easylee: because its predictable what u see
2013-09-16 14:45.03 easylee: you know where the monsters are
2013-09-16 14:45.09 easylee: and what monsters it will be
2013-09-16 14:45.41 easylee: it would be tougher
2013-09-16 14:45.58 easylee: not to know what type of monsters will welcome u
2013-09-16 14:46.02 easylee: or
2013-09-16 14:46.07 easylee: what weapons they use
2013-09-16 14:46.19 Dem: hi kark
2013-09-16 14:46.19 easylee: the total mix of all randomness
2013-09-16 14:46.24 easylee: that would be nice
2013-09-16 14:46.26 karkass: ah la grosse moumoune est de retour
2013-09-16 14:47.13 Dem: trying to think
2013-09-16 14:47.35 Dem: randomizing monster types i can understand
2013-09-16 14:47.39 easylee: k
2013-09-16 14:47.57 Dem: but there´s a limit to randomizing locations to avoid spawning monsters in bad places
2013-09-16 14:48.08 Dem: like in the air and such
2013-09-16 14:48.12 easylee: for example
2013-09-16 14:48.19 easylee: there is a room
2013-09-16 14:48.23 easylee: 4 corners
2013-09-16 14:48.26 easylee: u enter
2013-09-16 14:48.34 easylee: its always the same corner
2013-09-16 14:48.39 easylee: the bosses await u
2013-09-16 14:48.55 easylee: 4 diff spawns e.g.
2013-09-16 14:48.55 lady_boob_PL(buczka): hello all
2013-09-16 14:48.59 Dem: in this case this is simple
2013-09-16 14:49.01 Dem: hi
2013-09-16 14:49.03 easylee: would that be possible?
2013-09-16 14:49.06 easylee: hi^^
2013-09-16 14:49.17 DoDo: hey
2013-09-16 14:49.23 dr.Deo: !s
2013-09-16 14:49.32 easylee: to me it seems as if that could make maps more interesting
2013-09-16 14:49.37 easylee: or
2013-09-16 14:49.41 easylee: another thought
2013-09-16 14:49.49 easylee: that you cant predict
2013-09-16 14:49.59 easylee: what amount of bosses will await u
2013-09-16 14:50.02 easylee: one gib
2013-09-16 14:50.05 easylee: or 3 smaller
2013-09-16 14:50.12 easylee: would be also interesting
2013-09-16 14:50.20 easylee: one big*
2013-09-16 14:50.32 easylee: all in some
2013-09-16 14:50.36 easylee: more randomness
2013-09-16 14:50.45 easylee: all in sum* lol
2013-09-16 14:50.50 Dem: the problem we have here is that the game wasn´t meant to be played for this long
2013-09-16 14:50.55 Dem: it was thought for team records
2013-09-16 14:51.50 Dem: and when you speak of randomizing boss types you have to be careful to keep some balance between all the possibilities
2013-09-16 14:51.55 Dem: which is difficult
2013-09-16 14:52.19 Dem: like
2013-09-16 14:52.22 Dem: fire queens for example
2013-09-16 14:52.23 Dem: i hate them
2013-09-16 14:52.26 Dem: because they fuck up recs
2013-09-16 14:52.37 Dem: they just ruin maps when you have them
2013-09-16 14:52.42 easylee: hm
2013-09-16 14:52.48 Dem: maps should have fire queens 100% or 0% of the time
2013-09-16 14:52.50 Dem: not random
2013-09-16 14:52.56 Dem: they´re just too imbalanced
2013-09-16 14:53.09 DoDo: what ?
2013-09-16 14:53.09 easylee: the fire weapon is a special topic idd
2013-09-16 14:53.18 easylee: i get your point
2013-09-16 14:53.21 easylee: but still
2013-09-16 14:53.25 Dem: randomness is possible but it needs to be done carefully and that´s tedious
2013-09-16 14:53.30 easylee: if you dont think of records
2013-09-16 14:53.40 easylee: but fun
2013-09-16 14:53.52 easylee: i would like more randomness
2013-09-16 14:54.00 Dem: so do i
2013-09-16 14:54.02 easylee: k
2013-09-16 14:54.12 easylee: me, i do like fire queens
2013-09-16 14:54.20 easylee: tits even possible to dodge them out
2013-09-16 14:54.34 easylee: tif u understand the hit point of their shots
2013-09-16 14:54.41 easylee: it has a latenca
2013-09-16 14:54.45 easylee: latency
2013-09-16 14:54.48 Dem: think of the weaker players that lose teamscore to them lol
2013-09-16 14:55.01 easylee: forgot about teamscore once^^
2013-09-16 14:55.07 Dem: yes then it doesn´t matter i agree
2013-09-16 14:55.08 easylee: its overrated anyway
2013-09-16 14:55.13 karkass: if u start to make maps thinking about score u´re lost
2013-09-16 14:55.21 Dem: i did that twice kark
2013-09-16 14:55.47 easylee: anyway
2013-09-16 14:55.59 easylee: just wanted to through those thoughts in the pool^^
2013-09-16 14:56.09 easylee: throw
2013-09-16 14:56.11 Dem: it´s in the pool already lol np
2013-09-16 14:56.12 easylee: lol
2013-09-16 14:56.32 easylee: not done in any map isnt it?
2013-09-16 14:56.42 Dem: not really
2013-09-16 14:56.44 easylee: k
2013-09-16 14:56.58 Dem: it´s partially done in terraniux and rogues
2013-09-16 14:57.03 Dem: and in a new map coming
2013-09-16 14:57.07 Dem: from dodo
2013-09-16 14:57.22 easylee: remember our talk about the monsters following you?
2013-09-16 14:57.27 Dem: nope
2013-09-16 14:57.31 DoDo: huh what ?
2013-09-16 14:57.32 easylee: then u made the terraniux change
2013-09-16 14:57.42 easylee: lol
2013-09-16 14:57.43 Dem: monstertowndepot´s gasbags dodo
2013-09-16 14:57.51 easylee: long ago
2013-09-16 14:57.51 DoDo: ah .. yes :)
2013-09-16 14:58.09 Dem: monsters follow you just because the map has botpathing
2013-09-16 14:58.15 Dem: not sure what you´re talking about
2013-09-16 14:58.20 DoDo: what about it btw ?.. does it have potential to go main ?
2013-09-16 14:58.21 easylee: lol
2013-09-16 14:58.24 Dem: yes dodo
2013-09-16 14:58.27 Dem: just waiting for admins
2013-09-16 14:59.10 Dem: lee have you played terraniux enough times to notice some monsters were randomly placed?
2013-09-16 14:59.26 easylee: yes sure
2013-09-16 14:59.36 Dem: this is just the easier step
2013-09-16 14:59.56 easylee: its funny u forgot our conversation^^
2013-09-16 15:00.00 easylee: well
2013-09-16 15:00.08 Dem: i forget a lot of things here lol
2013-09-16 15:00.19 easylee: there also is the varying amount of boss
2013-09-16 15:00.23 easylee: i like that
2013-09-16 15:00.43 easylee: the phantom amount is depending on player amount?
2013-09-16 15:00.49 Dem: yes
2013-09-16 15:00.53 Dem: same in rogues
2013-09-16 15:00.58 Dem: with the brutes around the boss
2013-09-16 15:01.08 Dem: hp amount also changes
2013-09-16 15:01.24 easylee: those aspects i like very much
2013-09-16 15:01.39 easylee: u have been the first mapoper who understood my desire for it^^
2013-09-16 15:02.02 easylee: and actually made something similiar
2013-09-16 15:02.10 Dem: i´ve had talks with some mappers
2013-09-16 15:02.19 Dem: that say they tried to do such things but weren´t able to and gav up
2013-09-16 15:02.34 easylee: yea thought so
2013-09-16 15:02.41 easylee: it might be difficult
2013-09-16 15:02.42 Dem: because mappers and scripters tend to be different populations
2013-09-16 15:02.48 DoDo: haha jea
2013-09-16 15:02.48 easylee: yes#
2013-09-16 15:03.22 Dem: one more problem with this is that even if you have the tools available to make random monsters
2013-09-16 15:03.33 Dem: it´s still more work to use them than to do nothing
2013-09-16 15:03.53 Dem: and mappers often don´t care about their maps in the long run
2013-09-16 15:03.59 Dem: they just want to get it done and move on
2013-09-16 15:04.40 Dem: i like my maps to have replay value but i seem to be a minority for what i´ve seen
2013-09-16 15:04.55 Dem: one more thing
2013-09-16 15:05.03 Dem: see mh lost paradise?
2013-09-16 15:05.08 easylee: yes
2013-09-16 15:05.18 Dem: the other day hellfire told us he made it in 7 hours
2013-09-16 15:05.20 easylee: played it 5 times now
2013-09-16 15:05.29 DoDo: what ?????
2013-09-16 15:05.35 DoDo: 7hours ?
2013-09-16 15:05.40 Dem: you can´t expect to have elaborate things like random monsters when a map is made this quickly
2013-09-16 15:05.56 easylee: sure
2013-09-16 15:06.02 easylee: not all mappers are the same
2013-09-16 15:06.05 Dem: not like it´s particularly long to make but mappers don´t have the attention span to bother
2013-09-16 15:06.07 easylee: thats why i asked u and dodo
2013-09-16 15:06.48 Dem: i already do randomness in my maps but i spent so much time building the rooms that my production rate is ridiculous
2013-09-16 15:06.55 Dem: so don´t rely on me alone lol
2013-09-16 15:07.17 easylee: well, i see it on the long run
2013-09-16 15:07.35 easylee: i would just like to see a map realizing those ideas some day
2013-09-16 15:07.37 Dem: when people make new maps i try to suggest things here and there
2013-09-16 15:07.45 Dem: when trying dodo´s next map
2013-09-16 15:07.52 Dem: i suggested randomizing boss number
2013-09-16 15:07.54 Dem: like in terraniux
2013-09-16 15:07.58 Dem: and he was okay with it
2013-09-16 15:08.07 Dem: but it doesn´t seem justified in all maps
2013-09-16 15:08.07 easylee: nice
2013-09-16 15:08.11 easylee: true
2013-09-16 15:08.40 easylee: he map has to be designed by taking those randomness into account
2013-09-16 15:08.46 Dem: yes
2013-09-16 15:08.55 Dem: it´s difficult when you come in when the map is already done
2013-09-16 15:09.28 easylee: just wnated to give an impulse in that direction
2013-09-16 15:09.36 easylee: mainly because
2013-09-16 15:09.41 easylee: i see some maps
2013-09-16 15:09.54 easylee: in which experienced players
2013-09-16 15:10.08 easylee: just do nothing but occupy scertain spots
2013-09-16 15:10.14 easylee: certain*
2013-09-16 15:10.18 easylee: fire
2013-09-16 15:10.20 easylee: and win
2013-09-16 15:10.26 easylee: its so senseless
2013-09-16 15:10.37 Dem: my thoughts are
2013-09-16 15:10.43 Dem: if mh was ideal
2013-09-16 15:10.58 Dem: we would have a game mode with teamrecs
2013-09-16 15:11.00 Dem: and fixed maps
2013-09-16 15:11.11 Dem: and another mode with no recs and randomness
2013-09-16 15:11.19 Dem: and you could chose from mapvote
2013-09-16 15:11.21 easylee: not a bad idea
2013-09-16 15:11.38 easylee: in fact
2013-09-16 15:11.43 easylee: its a very good idea
2013-09-16 15:11.47 Dem: but this needs an amount of work that was never found even when the community was the most active
2013-09-16 15:12.05 easylee: maybe time will do it
2013-09-16 15:12.15 easylee: if the idea exists
2013-09-16 15:12.21 DoDo: sry.. configure the mapvote ? ^^
2013-09-16 15:12.24 easylee: here might come the time for it
2013-09-16 15:12.30 Dem: i think it will eventually happen in a newer game but no in UT
2013-09-16 15:12.32 Dem: too many people have left
2013-09-16 15:12.38 Dem: not*
2013-09-16 15:12.45 easylee: well
2013-09-16 15:13.07 Dem: dodo, mapvote configuration lets you choose config
2013-09-16 15:13.13 easylee: i ve read some news about cliff and other involved designers recently
2013-09-16 15:13.15 Dem: it´s already like this on the crazy server
2013-09-16 15:13.17 DoDo: yeye .. did it for my own server
2013-09-16 15:13.27 DoDo: instagib, dm with and without relics and mh :D
2013-09-16 15:13.27 easylee: and
2013-09-16 15:13.27 Dem: what did they say?
2013-09-16 15:13.34 karkass: moo too
2013-09-16 15:13.35 Dem: hi cow
2013-09-16 15:13.40 easylee: it was not about the old ut in particular
2013-09-16 15:13.42 brutepings: :)
2013-09-16 15:13.45 easylee: but
2013-09-16 15:14.00 easylee: i had the feeling that they some day would like to work on it again
2013-09-16 15:14.09 easylee: they had very romantic feelings
2013-09-16 15:14.24 easylee: in memory of the first days
2013-09-16 15:14.43 easylee: cliff is highly paid now and working on the new engines
2013-09-16 15:14.53 Dem: cliff was like 20-23yo during unreal development
2013-09-16 15:15.01 easylee: he now left
2013-09-16 15:15.11 DoDo: bleszinski ?
2013-09-16 15:15.13 Dem: yes
2013-09-16 15:15.13 easylee: yes
2013-09-16 15:15.20 DoDo: epic guy
2013-09-16 15:15.30 easylee: incredible how fast he did what he did
2013-09-16 15:15.36 easylee: he still is young
2013-09-16 15:15.39 Dem: i´m still unable to explain how he was able to progress in mapping this quickly
2013-09-16 15:15.41 easylee: or at least not old
2013-09-16 15:15.48 easylee: yea
2013-09-16 15:15.50 Dem: even being alone or with collegues
2013-09-16 15:16.00 easylee: its a mysstery to me too
2013-09-16 15:16.06 easylee: quite a genius
2013-09-16 15:16.25 easylee: it just was a very effective team
2013-09-16 15:16.32 Dem: i can make stuff just as good now but it took me like 5x the amount of time and that pisses me off
2013-09-16 15:16.38 easylee: lol
2013-09-16 15:16.48 easylee: i knew that i would have the feeling too
2013-09-16 15:16.54 easylee: thats why i didnt start^^
2013-09-16 15:16.57 easylee: mapping
2013-09-16 15:17.18 Dem: also lee
2013-09-16 15:17.25 DoDo: yes .. tahts the sucky point about mapping but i was too nosey xD
2013-09-16 15:17.32 easylee: ^^
2013-09-16 15:17.32 Dem: there are more things that can be done to improve mh
2013-09-16 15:17.39 easylee: yes sure
2013-09-16 15:17.43 easylee: there are many
2013-09-16 15:17.55 Dem: i try to script stuff but i´ll never be able to make enough maps to use them all
2013-09-16 15:17.58 Dem: this is a problem
2013-09-16 15:18.01 Trigger:roger that
2013-09-16 15:18.03 Dem: so i try to have other people use them
2013-09-16 15:18.16 easylee: the scripts?
2013-09-16 15:18.16 Dem: but it doesn´t always fit their maps lol
2013-09-16 15:18.21 easylee: k
2013-09-16 15:18.24 Dem: mostly custom bosses
2013-09-16 15:18.48 Dem: like that 3-shot gasbag in the Xmas map
2013-09-16 15:18.54 DoDo: i could still need a BlockPlayer actor that have xyz volume not a radius
2013-09-16 15:19.02 Dem: this is impossible dodo
2013-09-16 15:19.05 easylee: lol
2013-09-16 15:19.07 DoDo: lol :((((
2013-09-16 15:19.11 DoDo: ,;)
2013-09-16 15:19.21 Dem: that´s one of the improvements from ut2003 lol
2013-09-16 15:19.25 karkass: teamplar with 12 players ^^